We had the chance to catch up with one of our favorite materials design and sourcing gurus. We talked about the creative energy of New York, turning a temp job into a long term growth opportunity and being forever curious with experts that can help you master your craft.

Lauren Devine

Full Transcript 

Jeff Henderson (0:00)
Today on GEMS, GoodThin.gs we got Lauren Devine. Lauren Devine is one of my favorite people. I think your trade industry ability as a material designer, but you've done everything from modeling to product, full on product development with restaurants like all that other stuff. You want to introduce yourself in any way and tell us what you really do.

Lauren Devine (0:28) 
Oh yeah, so my name is Lauren Devine. My name is really Lauren Devine. I guess, career career wise I'm a materials specialist, a sourcing guru. I am a supply chain person, but I'm just just really like a lover of life and a curious person. And I believe in excellence. And I think that you find excellence by finding people that motivate you and find people that are excellent in things that you're not excellent in instead of surrounding yourself in an insular world. And that's kind of how I find myself doing crazy things like music and restaurants and things that just are really far outside of the scope of the career trajectory that a college counselor will tell you if you wanted to pursue materials.

Jeff Henderson (1:24) 
That's like spot on. How did you end up in materials? Because I would not have guessed that of you. I would not have guessed. I would not guess if I talk to you now. Yet, when you're doing the job. You're like, 110% that, how did you land in that world?

Lauren Devine (1:40)
So I actually I went to school for fashion design, because I grew up in Tacoma, Washington. And I just really had no artists, no fashion people like within my, you know, circle of parents and educators and things like that, but it was always something I was drawn to. And I think, before the internet, and before like the Virgil's of the world, if you were a kid that had that calling, you thought that there was only one job, and it was like a fashion designer, and you didn't realize how like everything gets put together from pattern making, to marketing to materials, all this stuff. So fashion was really my calling. But I just didn't realize that there were jobs out there besides like, sketching and pattern making and things like that. So I went to school for design. And I thought that I would pursue that and I moved to New York after going to college in San Francisco and I quickly realized that you better not show up in New York without knowing anyone if you want stuff to happen. So I kind of switched my gears and I just applied for everything within fashion. And I it was very disheartening. I didn't get any job offers in fashion. I said I give myself one year limit. And I'm like a doer, a goal setter type person. So this was like a very hard trial trying moment in my life. Like I would definitely say it was a little dark. So 13 months in

Jeff Henderson (3:20) 
13 months into your year, into your one year plan?

Lauren Devine (3:23) 
Exactly I was like, Okay, one one month extension one month extension, because by that time I had, like, gotten nestled into like, the social I'm like, the artistic people in New York and I just knew, bro, yeah, I just knew I wasn't leaving. So 12 months turning 13 I afforded myself and I actually just went to a freelance agency. I went to and I met with them and they said, Oh, you know course like I'm fresh out of school. I know nothing. I'm just like, I want to work in fashion design. This is my degree. This is my portfolio. So they called me the next day and they said, We actually have a three day job at Ralph Lauren, but it's just cleaning up a fabric library. It's not in design. It's only three days and you'd have to quit your part time job to do it. And it's $13 an hour and I was like, Okay, let's do it. So I did it. I went there for three days.

Jeff Henderson (4:19) 
That sounds exactly like you right now. Quit everything I'm doing right now? Sure, no problem.

Lauren Devine (4:26) 
Three days turned into three and a half years turned into three bosses leaving, you know, like one boss leaving and then me kind of taking on that responsibility. Then the next boss leaving so three people and I kind of like usurped their kind of job positions. And I just at that time, that was at Ralph Lauren at that time, they were just kind of like the beacon of like development and research and they were just so into educating their staff and doing things the right way and having all the resources so like, it really was like, it really was was an apprenticeship. And I was so different, like if you meet me, especially he met me back then you'd be like, okay, you don't belong here. But like, I think it was like so refreshing that people really like a lot of the old heads had just been there forever. They just taught me their craft and I just loved it. Because when I circle back when I wanted to go into fashion design, I always had this dilemma because I'm like a very analytical person. And I love business. I love math. And like, I was like, oh my god sourcing it's the creative side, and it's the business side. And in my eyes, it's the most creative because the design process always starts with fabrics and textures and colors. And you get to travel and you get to negotiate prices and lead times. I'm like, Why didn't anyone tell me this?

Jeff Henderson (5:53) 
Like, the perfect job for everything that you just mentioned for you. Like I think most people It's sort of see the surface of like, Oh, yeah, fine and, and then the travel and you being a math person like you do that job like with your eyes closed.

Lauren Devine (6:09) 
And I found out that I was really good at wrangling Italian men, which is actually something that's extremely hard to do. And you have to be able to figure out if you want to work in fabrics. So it kind of just came together and I just, I was also good at it. And like, I enjoy, I enjoyed the opportunities that I got from like being good at something. And it just kind of took it from there.

Jeff Henderson (6:39) 
So what do you think made you stick? Like when there was a three day job like did they notice that after three days or you just showed up the fourth day and didn't say anything and just kept working?

Lauren Devine (6:52) 
So I basically went in on the first day, and there they had no binders, no references, no library bins, everything was scattered about. And they were just like, we just need help. We're drowning. So we just asked for temp help, but we don't even know how to tell you to help us. So like I just took, they had this messy binder with like, it's supposed to be everything in the season, it was all completely unorganized. It was pretty apparent that the person that I was supposed to be helping was just in over their head too much to even know. And I think like, I think to be successful in this industry, you have to take direction and also take the lead at the same time because if you just wait to be told and how to do it, then why are you there to do it? So I just said, Oh, my God, this binder's stressing me out, you know what I should do? So I just went in a corner laid everything out. Everything has a code, which is a number, so it's really easy to organize it by code. The second day, I built a chart, I mean, these are just really basic entry level, like intern level stuff, but they just didn't really know how to implement it. So I just kind of took it upon myself to do it, which I guess is also a little bit part of my personality.

Jeff Henderson (8:06) 
Um, well, there's also the part in the fashion world, anybody who organizes anything, anybody who puts order to anything is a godsend.

Lauren Devine (8:15) 
Yeah, I also have, I also have one more trick. I don't think it's gonna apply to everyone. But I wasn't working at Ralph Lauren. And literally everyone is on a rotation of maternity leave there. And if you're someone trying to get your foot in the door, and you're really looking to work at one of those, you know, big companies where the employee pools kind of like that. That's a really great way to kind of advance yourself. I know a lot of people have done that.

Jeff Henderson (8:42) 
People are always gone for three months.

Lauren Devine (8:44) 
Yeah. And then as soon as they come back, someone else is leaving for three months. And you know, if you can, if you can hold it down in that time, that's a great way to get your foot in the door.

Jeff Henderson (8:55) 
That's hilarious. It's all about timing.

Lauren Devine (8:57) 
Yeah.

Jeff Henderson (9:00) 
So, because to your point, no one ever told you about this specific job, and I get this a lot with my family, but I think now the internet is sort of explained what it is I do, explain to people what it is you do who don't know anything about this works.

Lauren Devine (9:20) 
Okay, so basically, I

Jeff Henderson (9:27) 
Hard to explain, right?

Lauren Devine (9:29) 
I guess so, I think that I'm a, I would say I'm a translator. So I think that it's, it's really hard to be able to take something that's ascetic and emotional, and sometimes ethereal or vague and really relay that to either a supplier or a developer because they will think like more analytical more, more technically. I think that's, I think that's difficult and something you excel at. And it's something that I excel at that is even more extremely difficult as I speak creative director

Jeff Henderson (10:08) 
Mmm.

Lauren Devine (10:08) 
Um, and creative directors, they're all feeling they're all emotion. And it's a feeling they get from you. And it's a, it's a, it's a rapport, you build with them by translating their language, and making them show that you understand through your words and through the materials and the development that you bring back to the table. Because every creative director, I've worked with them, I hear them talking to any of their executioners any leads to their teams. If they don't like something, they're like, it's not like usually I changed my mind. It's like you didn't understand it or like you didn't get it. And obviously, you're not going to get it first. Right first, like every time, but I think just establishing a rapport with creative directors and making them be confident and how you would develop something, how you translate something, how you would execute something. If you want to be the leader of your department or leader in your field, that's something that you have to be able to bring to the table.

Jeff Henderson (11:14) 
I think that's a excellent observation in terms of how you have to navigate the world of both, I guess, creative mindsets, or, I don't know, speaking in the abstract with the rest of supply chain that wants to tell you about a nickel and today delivery. I mean, that's kind of a heady conversation. And yeah, I mean, when I got to Calabasas and I didn't know who was who, and you sort of would go into, I don't know, go from one end of the spectrum of creativity to then going into which countries had better duty and pricing for certain fabrics. And I was like, Okay, this is interesting take so thank you. Excellent, excellent. I think I was most what was really interesting is that, I mean, I was in and out, in and out of that office in my head not that regularly. And I remember you yelled at me, we always talked about this, you yelled at me because I hadn't been there in like, two, three months. You're like, thank goodness, you're back, because you're like, and I was like, Wow, you're like your manager. And I remember being slightly freaked out by that, because I kind of just was dropping in and out. And what is it that made you take that, like, I thought that I was the manager. I'm curious.

Lauren Devine (12:33) 
I mean, I think that I think that when you work in creative fields, you realize what it's like, very nebulous, and that having, having kind of like designated experts or like creative leaders in each field, is very beneficial to the overall success and it affects your department as well. So like when I see Someone come in, who is, you know, confident for a reason who's calm, cool and collected like you are, and really is an expert and really can drive the product and still like while honoring how the creative director wants to drive the creativity. It's like, okay, I would, you know, I would like to align with this person I want to learn, I want to learn from this person, because these are like successes that I can you know, that I can try to practice myself. And like, when you come to the office and similar like how and I go to the office, you need to have updates.

It's always great to have something new to look at even better if it's something to touch and feel and try on. And it's always great to to talk about, like what's already in work, what's already coming down the pipeline. I love that approach. And I think that's something that you embody and like something that I see when people are working with very creative genius type director people is they're maybe intimidated to take that step. So they're just kind of asking, waiting to be told, You know what to do and when to execute and worrying about stuff. So when I when I see someone when I see someone who's at that level, I want to emulate you, I want to get to know you. I want to see how your brain works and like I was just like, okay, yes, this person is going to be a long term friend and mentor relationship to me, according to me, and I have deemed it so.

Jeff Henderson (14:42) 
Well, I completely understood that it was not my choice in the matter when those conversations happenedgoing from like an old mind you like when I showed up? I had pretty much gotten over 15 plus years. 16 years at Nike was used to like this pretty much coordinated director management kind of focus of how things were built. And I was kind of happy being out of that. And I didn't in any way realize I was doing any of those things you just said, in my mind, I was literally just showing up, drawing some stuff, putting things on the wall. And there is a level of like coordination you kind of have to do to get things done. But I just assumed that everybody else was doing the same thing and life is good. Fly in, have a couple meetings learned.

Lauren Devine (15:35) 
You learn from the machine at Nike and that's you know, that's sort of like the same thing I did from Ralph Lauren and then like, now Now that you have these companies, um, you know, you have these companies and the field is like really opened up like you said, like your, your parents. Now, if you know this was back when you were starting your career, they would understand what you did, because it's so much more apart of like, the every, the curtain has been pulled back, you know, like behind fashion and stuff like that and like, it's very much more accessible to be like a designer creator. So now what happens is before I feel like you have very clear career paths where it's like, Okay, you go from this job to that job to that job. And then if you do this, this is the pool of companies you can work in. No, now you're in a room with people who are like, maybe were your idols growing up, as well as like someone who dropped out of design school after the first year and you're all forced to like collaborate.

And there are definitely valuable creative discoveries that can come out of that. But when I'm in situations like that, it's always great to align myself with people who have completed things before who know how to drive the product cycle, because like, they're going to elevate the rest of the team and they're going to help the people who have not been a part of the machine before help them to execute and get their ideas out like the best they can. And that's why you're always the manager.

Jeff Henderson (17:07) 
I'm always the old man, I'm okay with that. To me, that was sort of the best part about being Calabasas was that it was the I don't know, want to be around people who were sort of young, who hadn't seen, I don't know, 20 years of industry, ups and downs who thought everything was sort of new. But it was more, I think, a pleasure to have conversations with people. I think, like you who could sort of break down Yes, I don't know these things. But let me show you what I'm willing to put in the work to understand. I think that was I mean, anybody who can talk their way through math is somebody who I'll probably have more conversations with than not. I think, was one of the things were like, Okay, how do I invoice and I remember, going like, this is how I randomly invoice and stuff, but you don't have to do it this way, that way, and I remember it Maybe it's you and Jessica like, okay, okay, okay. And I was like, you know what we can be talking about something other than this, but that was the part where I was like, okay, you are alone. I don't want to make it sound like those were the only things you learn but sometimes creatives don't want to focus on that part so much. So not having it all is a little bit scary to me because then they wonder how come I didn't get a paycheck? and how come this didn't work out so well? because people sometimes they take advantage of you when you're not when you're not even when they're not trying to take advantage of you. It's just that your ducks in a row. So you lost out kind of thing.

Lauren Devine (18:35) 
Right? And if you don't ask, no one's gonna go out of their way to advocate for you if you're not advocating for yourself, and that's gonna be true in the atelia and out of the atelia. Um, I think that I think that a lot of people when they're like really developing their career, those are a lot of the things that they're afraid to ask. And, um, you know, people Even in the organizations I still work in or like friends will come to me to ask advice. They're like, how do I broach the subject of payment? How much is the payment, how's it handled? I don't want to come off rude. And I'm like, you're not going to come on rude.

But you are going to come off green if you don't bring it up first. And they're not going to respect you if you bring it up later. Like, I never thought of this kind of, I never thought about it that way. And I'm like, well, that's how I do it. And it's worked pretty damn well for me and a lot of other people I know. So you should consider trying it.

Jeff Henderson (19:32) 
You're right, it is the lesser of two evils of I'm gonna come off looking like a greedy or a headache. Or I could just come off like, I have no idea and never be happy. So and they're just gonna run over me.

Lauren Devine (19:44) 
Right?

Jeff Henderson (19:44) 
Kind of want to set the stage.

Lauren Devine (19:47) 
Yeah, you set the stage. You know, you'll get yourself sorted. And I think that if you're coming into something that's like, more of like a nebulous organization and not like a corporate machine, which those are really disappearing anyways, like, it's just going to help you really get established and have kind of an understanding of what your place is and the value you can bring. And she's going to help you and more because I think like a lot of design companies now a lot of people that are not able to bring up those conversations just kind of end up being like outliers a little bit, and they never get like looped into like their full potential. So it's really you know, it's really about advocating for yourself. I've always found that people that I'm working with, whether they're my peers or my superior, whatever you want to call it, if you are very upfront with them and tell them like, Okay, this will be easy. This is I'll say, impossible, but I can work on it if you want. This is going to be a little bit more difficult, like how do you want me to go, you're just going to develop such a better relationship with the people that you're working with and working for Rather than just taking a bunch of information and just saying, Okay, I got it, I can do all of that. And then it's just like, if something was hard or impossible or going to take a long time and you said it, you said, Okay, yeah, I can do that, then they're just gonna be looking at you like you failed for not doing that. So like, I'm a big a big proponent of like, upfront communication for that point.

Jeff Henderson (21:24) 
It's definitely I think, worth everybody's while To be honest, I think sometimes people are a little dishonest in what they want, not even what they can do just what they want out of the situation. And I think that leads to later on down the road. Did you really want to be in this party? I had a client once or actually didn't happen didn't turn into a client, because they sort of after we went through like a nice meeting and introductions and conversation, they sort of said, Hey, well, we have a few designers on this compensation, which they didn't tell me up front. And they said, you know, can we see some Work upfront, to kind of see if we want to really work with you, you know, over the next year, and I was like, How do I know I want to work with you for the next year? Right? What are you going to do for me? And they kind of were like, taken aback by Whoa, you know, like, I'm really not upset if I don't get this job, because I don't need every job. I just need the ones that are going to be good in the long run. So I think when you're honest about those conversations, and I think you get bold enough to like, say what you really want, then you land people who are, I think, at the same level, I guess, happiness and getting the work done as opposed to, you know, what, how can I get the most for the least? I think that and I think sometimes that leads to trouble. Yeah, and

Lauren Devine (22:44) 
I've definitely seen you do that a lot. And what I've noticed is that like, it's just exactly what I'm saying. It makes people see you as an expert, and it makes people see you as someone they can collaborate with and also that they can trust to go off and lead and develop and produce on their own. And I think that's why you always get a very high level of respect of anyone that you're working with.

Jeff Henderson (23:09) 
Well, thank you as well. But I thought, but I also think to your point, what you just said is that if I come at you in a way that's super focused and dialed in to what I need for what I want, if I'm working for you to get something done for you best believe, I'm going to do that with your money as well. Like, it's not like I'm going to come at you and try to get everything for me. And then when I'm not negotiating with your money, you know what, I'll just take a loss here and I won't lie with the factory run all over me like, no, it's, I'm going to play hard for you no more than I'm going to play hard for me so that everybody can win. Yeah, that's kind of the right answer, which I'm going to change and switched up except because now it's the funny part where, while you are that person in your day job nine days A week, you are one of the most I'm going to jump on a plane, go to Jamaica. Like following your feed is literally like where in the world is Carmen San Diego because you are, pre-COVID, all over the place. And describe how your job actually helps that.

Lauren Devine (24:18) 
I'm definitely feeling like, yes, I'm definitely feeling very detached to my pre COVID itself, but I know that it's only been two months and I can suck it up and get it right. But it's a little bit of a hard topic for me to talk about. Um, I recently just went to, like my 43rd country, I think, I can't remember. But I just love traveling and I'm like, I am such a curious person. And the part that really made me fall in love with doing fabrics because like maybe the first year or two I was kind of like sure if I want to, like put efforts into like growing in this field, but I love I love traveling and I love thinking about like the natural raw materials and labor and machinery that would kind of be native to a certain region why you would make it there. I mean, I was definitely traveling well before I was doing this job, but this really like cemented my love of travel. And I'm just a person like whenever my friends are asking me for advice, if you don't want to hear this answer, don't ask me for advice because I'm like, don't wait. If you have an opportunity to do something, do it. Like, if there's been times and I've been like waiting around to hear about like, you know, a job interview or something like that. If I have an opportunity to take a trip. I'm not going to sit around and wait for a phone call. My phone will ring anywhere in the world and I can get on a plane anywhere in the world. I'm lucky to live somewhere like New York, which is always easy to reach back home. So I'm just like, there's been so many trips like international, which had been booked like the morning of or the night before, like for work and for pleasure.

And I love, I mean, this is like corny traveler talk, but like, I love food. And I love markets. I love beaches. I love being outside. And like, when I land somewhere, I'll just find somewhere like that and just walk around and talk to people and immerse myself. And then it's like, the next thing you know, you're like, you know, someone's mom is making you a regional dinner or something like that. And you have like

Jeff Henderson (26:40) 
You are not joking about that, like the first two years I knew you. I was trying to like, figure out where you were and where you were next. And what that meant, like, well, she just went to Jamaica two weeks ago, but it seems like she's back. Did she stay the whole time or did she have to go back for business? No, it was literally, Yeah, I just wanted to go again.

Lauren Devine (27:01) 
Yeah, I never later-gram (Instagram). So I know it seems like I do but I never later-gram like I don't save up travel posts to post later.

Jeff Henderson (27:12) 
It's literally I was just there but I'm back again.

Lauren Devine (27:15) 
So when I first started working full time at Ralph Lauren, like a couple a couple maybe like six or nine months and a friend from college was like, um, this was shortly after the kind of economy fallout in Argentina so it was like affordable to me. Um, and she was planning a trip so I loved doing things like that when I was like more college age right after that, just like if someone's going somewhere just like tagging on, um, you know, getting a travel book or researching and just finding out stuff and going places.

And then, for the first six years of my career, I was working like, you know, full time two weeks paid vacation a year plus six sick days, I converted sick days and vacation days. And anytime we had a day or two off, I would just tack on a few extra days. Big lover of the red eye back then just really anything that would allow me to get in the world and have as much experience as I can and also while still maintaining my full time job. But I have, I have gone from the airport to work like more times than you can I don't know probably like,

Jeff Henderson (28:24) 
Do people who work with you know that?

Lauren Devine (28:26) 
Oh, yeah.

Jeff Henderson (28:27) 
Like, are they going oh, she just brought her bags in with her.

Lauren Devine (28:30) 
Yeah, that was something I was definitely a little apprehensive about it first, but then I realized that people treat I realized that people treated me based on my output. And it started to become a thing whether like, I worked at companies where it was kind of like a group mentality where if one person stays late, then everyone should stay late to like suffer through it, but I'm a big proponent of it. Works smarter and not harder. And even if I even if I go into like a new organization just like very soon into it they'll be like oh my God, you're so on top of your shit like I really, I really admire how you can come in, bang out your work and get out of here on time. Like more props to you for that. So I think that if you're, I think that if your output speaks for you people are willing to give you more liberty.

Jeff Henderson (29:29) 
So like, walk me through because I think you brought me to a point where I'm better understanding in that you are on every level like stereotypical millennial in terms of what people would think about. Yet, it doesn't come with what people might talk about the negative bias towards millennial because you get everything done in a way that's unbelievable. Does working or having that background at a big company help drive that or was that just something that was natural or people just make it too big a deal.

Lauren Devine (30:03)

I think for me, I've always been, I've always been a hard worker. I would always like I'm the girl in high school it would like get my homework done at lunch so that I could just enjoy when I get home like I love enjoying life. I don't like to sit around and fear waiting for a phone call. I don't like to sit around stressing because I'm procrastinating I'd rather get stuff off my plate and just like have free time. And so I think that I'm like, kind of like a busy body because of that and also like my mom made me do Kumon and I think that had an effect on me. I was like, I like it. I'll go to Kumon and it all goes back to Kumon. I was like really into competitive Kumon and like my mom really pushed me for like

Jeff Henderson (30:50) 
You said competitive Kumon, I didn't know that was a thing.

Lauren Devine (30:51) 
It basically was. My mom was just very into like academic excellence and organization and And they, they, my parents, they're like the American dream. They're completely self made. And they were, they had me very young when they were 19. And they were building that while I was young, and I was watching it. And they were like, so motivated that they could make it, you could do anything. And I saw it happen for them. So like I actually, until I was a teenager believed that, that that could happen for everyone.

Lauren Devine (31:25)
Because I was just the experience that I grew up with. And like, there's, yeah, and they did it. I was like, Wow, this is so cool. Like, we went from like, like, an apartment, my dad being in college, like by the time into high school being like, in a beautiful house, and they're like, owning their own business. I'm like, Wow, you guys really did it. That's really cool.

Jeff Henderson (31:49) 
That's good example. Nice, nice. So, work related question, you know, so we can keep this all work a little bit, in terms of what's coming up in your world in design and creativity like what's next? What are you looking at this for? Whether it's in materials or I don't know. Are you cook Are you baking bread with everyone else in the corona world?

Lauren Devine (32:14) 
Oh my God. No I baked my first loaf of bread like the first day of the quarantine and I have not stopped it's like actually crazy. I've been on so many Bon Appetit's. I love I love the food world. I love being a participant in it. And I love it because

Jeff Henderson (32:36) 
I know that.

Lauren Devine (32:38) 
Because it's such a creative outlet and it's one that I don't I can't execute on myself. And like something I was saying earlier like I love surrounding myself with like experts and excellence in other fields. Like even with you like you know, footwear, um, in the scale that you are working on compared to me it was just like really eye opening. Or like I love to align myself with musicians because I think that you can learn from excellent creatives that are not in your field, you can learn creative process creative excellence from them so well. Um, so I definitely feel myself. So like, yeah, last year, I designed a restaurant mission in Chinese in Bushwick. And that was my first kind of foray into that. And I love the food world. I'm so curious about it, but I'm definitely a definitely an outsider looking in. And I think I'll remain that way. I think I've definitely found my path with materials. As I get more senior, you know, you kind of start to get more on the executive side of things and I would love to move more into supply chain and boss type things.

So I'm working now to kind of sharpen my skills. gills on those and you know, learning about scaling and all that stuff. So I don't know, maybe I'm becoming boring in my old age.

Jeff Henderson (34:09) 
I don't think anybody will ever describe you as boring and boring in comparison to you, but I don't think anyone will describe. Will you be riding a motorcycle through the Bronx? And by the way I didn't get [inaudible]. So I'm highly disappointed, but we'll get over that conversation for another day. One last question for you. If you could go back and considering everything you just told me it's probably going to be related Kumar, you could go back and tell yourself one thing at some point, what would it be something you could grow on something to feel better about yourself.

Lauren Devine (34:49) 
I wish I had more access to be community that I'm in now when I was growing up. Like I said, for kids my age if you if you liked fashion, you're like, Okay, fashion designer, that's the one job in fashion. And I think I think now with the curtain being peeled back and with different types of people being in prominent heads, like the design and creative world, like I think the kids these days do have it. Um, the company that I'm working for now we wait we even have some like teenagers finding us on Instagram wanting to launch their brands. So maybe I was just born too early.

Jeff Henderson (35:36) 
But I think you hit the right time you just you're ahead of your time.

Lauren Devine (35:41) 
Well, it's it's always better to be ahead of your time than in your time, but um, yeah, next step for me to answer you wanted to hear is like I definitely plan to retire by the time I'm 50 and have my house built in Jamaica. I know that's the answer you want but that's the truth.

Jeff Henderson (35:59) 
First of all, I think 50 is a long way away. I'm thinking about two years and you'll be back home. Yeah, no big deal. No big deal. Well, thank you for sharing your time your spirit your energy, like learning so much more about you. I think I listen things but you know, I'm old so I forget these things. Appreciate you Lauren.

Lauren Devine (36:21) 
Thank you for thinking of me and including me and it's always such a pleasure to talk to you and I hope we'll be working on something new and exciting soon.

Jeff Henderson (36:32) 
Don't don't don't start talking.

Lauren Devine (36:33) 
I know I'm like, I know like sometimes I don't like the calls and emails I get from Jeff. For anyone who's listening to this, who knows Jeff or who plans to get to know Jeff, just know that if you pursue that friendship, he will recognize your skill and your talent and he will push you for it. He will exploit it for himself when he needs to. And he will just get you involved in like the most amazing projects so like and like, as you're doing out this podcast like bringing community together and stuff like that that's a great thing that you're doing.